Dennis & Brian\'s Build

I have found that a part of this nature is greatly improved if it should find it\'s way into our Kitchen Oven when it is running a Self Clean Cycle. Seems like occassionaly I will misplace a dirty old steel part when I am trying to be helpful with cleaning the kitchen. After cleaning the stove sometimes the part will show up in the oven, go figure.

Our GE Stove gives the part a 800F to 900F stress relief with a medium ramp up and a slow ramp down. Ideally I would like to go a little higher but the uniformity is very good. Remember however Stress Relief is a bit of a misnomer. More correctly the part is stress balanced. If you cut away material and unbalance the stresses the part may still change shape. Hopefully just not as much.

nitewatchman

Yes nitewatchmen, getting it into the wife\'s oven on a cleaning cycle for a preheat would have been advisable. We did remove a great deal of material since we started with a solid 3\" bar rather than tubing. We were actually surprised that it didn\'t move more. We were sure that it was going to do something it just we didn\'t know what or how much.

The next step was to get the cam assembly secured in the casing.

To accomplish this we pressed the cam assembly into the breech casing. We made a .950 deep plug to use to press the cam assembly in from the rear which gives us the exact depth from the rear of the casing to the rear cam. We put a bolt through the cam fixture assembly to insure the cams were tight against the .200 spacers in the fixture. The super space went on the mill with a three jaw adjust true chuck and a set of soft jaws turned to the id of the breech casing. We then mounted the breech casing with the cams on the super spacer. With the super spacer set at zero we used a protractor to set the 8 degree angle with the plug in the bolt extractor slot. This set up or TDC and BDC.  We then blued the whole thing and laid out the flats for the side rails. These lines were used as a reference as we rotated the thing to drill and tap all the holes.The pictures show how we held it, clamped it and indicated it true. We then proceeded to drill and tap the holes in the cams and then mill the flats for the rails.

A few more pictures getting things put together

[quote name=\"drhardin\"]Yes nitewatchmen, getting it into the wife\'s oven on a cleaning cycle for a preheat would have been advisable. We did remove a great deal of material since we started with a solid 3\" bar rather than tubing. We were actually surprised that it didn\'t move more. We were sure that it was going to do something it just we didn\'t know what or how much.[/quote]

Might still work to throw the whole thing in the oven fixture and all. Kinda like Hansel and Gretel with the witch.

Except for turning very deep blue to gray it probaly wouldn\'t hurt.

Error correction. In my previous post I said we set the 8 degree angle with a protractor, that should read 15 degree angle. I had the 8 degree offset on the cocking ring etched in my brain.

While I was off taking care of so personal business Brian made the recoil plate. He made it on the Tormach. Note that he made another mounting fixture with two locating dowel pins. I think it\'s neat that the piece of aluminum tool plate has been used any number of times. It is full of holes and cuts. :roll:

[quote name=\"nitewatchman\"]
[quote name=\"drhardin\"]Yes nitewatchmen, getting it into the wife\'s oven on a cleaning cycle for a preheat would have been advisable. We did remove a great deal of material since we started with a solid 3\" bar rather than tubing. We were actually surprised that it didn\'t move more. We were sure that it was going to do something it just we didn\'t know what or how much.[/quote]

Might still work to throw the whole thing in the oven fixture and all. Kinda like Hansel and Gretel with the witch.

Except for turning very deep blue to gray it probaly wouldn\'t hurt.[/quote]


I think at this point I\'ll wait and heat it up running ammo through it. Brian keeps asking me where all the videos are of this gun being fired. If this thing doesn\'t shot when done I may have to change my name and move to Montana.

We knew that the rear cam had curled in and twisted when we cut the bolt extractor slot. We were able to get all of the curl out with the relief slot and spreading the cam with the machinist jack. The twist was only .003 to .004 but that was enough to cause a little rock in the recoil plate when we put it in the casing. So, Brian decided to put the complete assembly back in the lathe to true up the back of the came. This was only a few thousands but doing this let the recoil plate sat flat against the cam.

I keep telling Brian we only have a few more hard parts to make but I think he has stopped listening to me. While I was off again doing some stuff I would have rather not had to do Brian decided to whip out the bolt extractor. He turned the blank on the lathe. Put the blank in the cnc mill and cut the bottom flat. He then set it up on the bottom flat on a parallel on top of the vise to cut part way through the sides. After cutting the sides he sawed it apart on the band saw. Put the piece in the vise and indicated off the small flat cut on the side and finished the whole side to match. Flipped it and did the other side and cut the cam groove. Seems easy to me.

Just a little work to finish the bolt extractor.

Dennis, you can assure Brian that the gun will fire,  as long as you can get ammo.  For me personally, I have not posted videos because I\'m so dog gone paranoid. (I actually keep a notarized copy of the letter I got from the ATF with the gun at all times) Never know who\'s watching those You Tube Videos.  That\'s just me.  There\'s always some tweaking to do.  When that first round is fired you\'ll giggle like a school girl.  Don\'t worry Brian,  It\'ll be a shooter.  Keep up the excellent work.

[quote name=\"sconigatman\"]Dennis, you can assure Brian that the gun will fire,  as long as you can get ammo.  For me personally, I have not posted videos because I\'m so dog gone paranoid. (I actually keep a notarized copy of the letter I got from the ATF with the gun at all times) Never know who\'s watching those You Tube Videos.  That\'s just me.  There\'s always some tweaking to do.  When that first round is fired you\'ll giggle like a school girl.  Don\'t worry Brian,  It\'ll be a shooter.  Keep up the excellent work.[/quote]

Thanks Sconigatman. I needed those words of encouragement. I built the D&E version and never even put firing pins in it. I talked with a lot of guys who built it and only a few ever got it to fire at all and then it just self destructs. I decided it would be easier to build the RGG than rework everything on the D&E. That said, it is a beautiful model

[quote name=\"drhardin\"]
[quote name=\"sconigatman\"]Dennis, you can assure Brian that the gun will fire,  as long as you can get ammo.  For me personally, I have not posted videos because I\'m so dog gone paranoid. (I actually keep a notarized copy of the letter I got from the ATF with the gun at all times) Never know who\'s watching those You Tube Videos.  That\'s just me.  There\'s always some tweaking to do.  When that first round is fired you\'ll giggle like a school girl.  Don\'t worry Brian,  It\'ll be a shooter.  Keep up the excellent work.[/quote]

Thanks Sconigatman. I needed those words of encouragement. I built the D&E version and never even put firing pins in it. I talked with a lot of guys who built it and only a few ever got it to fire at all and then it just self destructs. I decided it would be easier to build the RGG than rework everything on the D&E. That said, it is a beautiful model[/quote]

Have you seen the many posts here on the D&E gun?    A few have came up with changes and got theirs to fire pretty well.

I have a D&E about 80% done when I learned of the firing problems.   I have often wondered if the RG&G internal design could be tweaked to fit in a D&E housing.  That would seem to give the best of both worlds,  looks and function.

I moved south about a year ago and am still getting my workshop established.    I sold my big machines prior to the move, long distance moving not being practical.   I am on the home stretch getting the shop re established and look forward to resuming work on the gattling.  

George
(Anderson SC)

Hi Sparky_NY_SC

I was will into my build when I started to learn of the problems with the D&E design. The biggest of which is the little fixed extractor that will break off if you look at it to hard and the small end of the bolt. I did talk to a guy named Tex at the model engineering show who redesigned the bolt with a moveable extractor and made the bolts out of I think 1144. He got the gun to work fairly well but after a few hundred rounds the end of the bolt began to mushroom and the gun would jam. I think you could redesign it to work but you would have to increase the bolt diameter which means a larger bolt carrier which means a larger housing, etc. I think you get the picture.

I want to say that I met Doug and talked with him a number of times both at shows and on the phone. He was a great guy. I think he designed a beautiful scale model and designed it so a hobby guy could build it with minimum tools. He was always willing to help. I did call he shortly before he passed and he even was willing to talk with me and answer questions even though he was bedfast. I didn\'t know he was that ill when I called and I was certainly  impressed.

Hi All !

In case it was not obvious we are building two guns at once. Twice the fun !  :lol:

Brian

[quote name=\"sconigatman\"]Dennis, you can assure Brian that the gun will fire,  as long as you can get ammo.  For me personally, I have not posted videos because I\'m so dog gone paranoid. (I actually keep a notarized copy of the letter I got from the ATF with the gun at all times) Never know who\'s watching those You Tube Videos.  That\'s just me.  There\'s always some tweaking to do.  When that first round is fired you\'ll giggle like a school girl.  Don\'t worry Brian,  It\'ll be a shooter.  Keep up the excellent work.[/quote]

 I agree completely.

Brian

Nice work and Thanks for sharing what you are doing.

Later 42rocker

It’s time to go back to the cocking ring.

We started out making a two piece ring but after turning the two blanks we decided to scrap that and make a one piece ring. Additionally, we decided to use the shoulder design as shown by Cutter in his thread in Machining – New Builds. This eliminates the square holed sleeve in the recoil plate and makes for an easier cocking switch.

 Had to get the rotary table on the mill and indicated in. Made another set of soft jaws for the ring blank and indicated the blank to verify everything. We made drawings showing the location of the cuts. In addition, Brian prints full size transparencies which are really great for checking things prior to cutting. We would blue it all and make a skim cut and check the angles before making the final cut. We cut the top slot in the ring on the lathe. The other two slots were cut on the mill using the rotary table. We did have to grind the shank on the end mills smaller to get into the upper slots.

More pictures making the cocking ring.

Nice setup Thanks for sharing that.

Later 42rocker