New Member

Wow Frank,   I honestly believe you may have just set the new all time record!    Great news.  Anxiously awaiting more updates!

George

Yeah, thats the most I\'ve fired at one time.  I am going to perform the extractor modification to the other 9 bolts today and try a full magazine.  I see on other posts that there is a 50 round magazine?  My mag holds approx 27, this is the stick mag not the Broadwell.

Frank

[quote name=\"nitewatchman\"]
[quote name=\"Roller\"]  Extraction is still iffy, my extractors are showing cracks after 175 shots through the gun.  I am working on beefing up the extractor hooks right now.

Frank[/quote]

Even though I realize that it is not prototypical, perhaps the D&E Bolts could be fitted with a RG style Spring Loaded Extractor. I pulled the plans on both bolts and I believe that there may be sufficent room to machine a pocket for the Extractor Hook and Spring Pocket in the D&E Bolt after scaling the sizes appropriately. The extractor would be pretty small, likely 0.093\" wide but I have have some .22 pistols that were in this range.  

There was also a flat spring Extractor Detail floating around a year or so ago. This was made from flat stock and wrapped around the the outside of the bolt in a groove cut specifically for it. I will try to fine the details again and add here.

The Hook machined into the top of the bolt face on the D&E Guns would appear to be fairly \"Dainty\" and I assume that this is the area that is showing cracks. It would be frustrating to scrap all the time that goes into a bolt if this Hook were to break off. The Spring Loaded Style Extractor may also be a \"fix\" to salvage bolts if the D&E Hook were to seperate from the bolt face.  


nitewatchman[/quote]

Have you researched this any further?   This would seem to be the ideal solution, as nearly every gun manufacturer has found.    Just yesterday I looked at a little 25 auto pistol I have and its extractor, its about the size necessary to fit into a D&E bolt.    I am deep into cnc\'ing my 14x40 lathe right now but will be finished in a couple weeks and anxious to get back on the gatling gun project.   I will be exploring this method first thing.

Note: Perhaps you could move these posts related to this extractor type over into the thread specifically on extractors???
         It would keep this thread cleaner and keep extractor info in one place.

George

George,

If i did not have my chambers already done I would pursue the blade type extractor.  The original hook style ejector seems to work ok but is unreliable due to its weak construction.  I will be trying my beefed up bolts to see how they work and hold up.

Frank

[quote name=\"Roller\"]George,

If i did not have my chambers already done I would pursue the blade type extractor.  The original hook style ejector seems to work ok but is unreliable due to its weak construction.  I will be trying my beefed up bolts to see how they work and hold up.

Frank[/quote]

Nitewatchman did those sketches on the original drawings and I\'m curious if he looked into it any further.   I also have my barrell ring and barrells grooved but don\'t think that would matter a bit if I went to the spring finger type extractor.  Someone (you?) posted a concern about the cartridge wouldn\'t be fully supported because of the extractor cutout if a different extractor was used.  This should be no problem at all, many commercial firearms have the cartridge not fully supported all the way around by the chamber, the 1911 45 auto and glocks for example and those cartridges are much higher pressure than a .22.    Also, it would be possible to make the hook end larger than the finger and even in the same shape/dimensions as the original D&E hook so it would fill the cutout,  it would make the finger extractor a little more complicated but it certainly could be done.   I only made one bolt so far, per the drawings,  to test the waters, it is starting to crack naturally, totally unacceptable.

[quote name=\"Sparky_NY\"]
[quote name=\"nitewatchman\"]
[quote name=\"Roller\"]  Extraction is still iffy, my extractors are showing cracks after 175 shots through the gun.

Frank[/quote]

Even though I realize that it is not prototypical, perhaps the D&E Bolts could be fitted with a RG style Spring Loaded Extractor.


nitewatchman[/quote]

Have you researched this any further?  

George[/quote]

No sorry I haven\'t, I have been neck deep in work and my RG gun.

nitewatchman

Hello..brand new member here, I have the de plans and will be starting my build here soon.  But I was reviewing the drawings.  I agree that a wedge firing pin is best for a rim fire.  Why not slot the bolt and pin the spring retainer so that it retains the pin in the same orientation?

Also, does anyone know the force needed to fire a .22?  And not in lbs but psi.  Knowing that would allow you to select the smallest spring needed based on the surface area of the contact.  This may aid in minimizing crank force.

Yes you could use a pin in the spring retainer and mill a longer slot in the bolt.  I wanted to keep the pin seperate from the cocking shaft to reduce friction and to also have a smaller slot in the side of the bolt.  Others have used a square ground on the shaft to keep it from rotating in the cocking ring.

A friend of mine has tried to get info from ammunition mfgs. regarding firing pin pressures required to fire the .22 rimfire but has not received any responses.  I have been using a calculated spring pressure and trial and error.  Currently I am at 3.2 pounds spring pressure but feel that this is borderline.  I am thinking 3.5 would be ideal.

Frank

Sparky NY, The automatic cartridges are designed with much more brass at the base just above the rim. The 22\'s are thin throughout the entire case and if left un-supported, they will blow out in that area. I know from experience on this matter. There is enough pressure to blow the magazine out of a 22 rifle. I had a sticky firing pin on a AR-7 rifle that did this and it also bent the left side cover plate.
bruski

[quote name=\"bruski\"]Sparky NY, The automatic cartridges are designed with much more brass at the base just above the rim. The 22\'s are thin throughout the entire case and if left un-supported, they will blow out in that area. I know from experience on this matter. There is enough pressure to blow the magazine out of a 22 rifle. I had a sticky firing pin on a AR-7 rifle that did this and it also bent the left side cover plate.
bruski[/quote]

I would not disagree about the auto cartridges having a thicker case wall but your damage in your AR7 was not caused by a partially unsupported chamber.    I am betting your AR7 has a fully supported chamber.   Your round must have detonated WELL out of the chamber, perhaps right in the magazine when the bolt with the stuck pin hit.   Would a 22 in the chamber with only a barrell notch cause any issues?    Can\'t say for sure but I would doubt it.  Your malfunction probably had huge areas unsupported and the majority of the pressure discharged into the receiver.   Even a 22 short has enough pressure to drive a 16d nail into concrete if the pressure is released that way.

The round fired when the cartridge was about 1/16 inch from battery. If I can find the case, I will take a picture of it as I did save it for some reason or another. The entire case was bulged outward in that 1/16 inch area with a rupture in the bulge going about one third of the diameter around. Just a standard Remington bulk box ammo.
bruski

[quote name=\"Sparky_NY\"]
[quote name=\"bruski\"]Sparky NY, The automatic cartridges are designed with much more brass at the base just above the rim. The 22\'s are thin throughout the entire case and if left un-supported, they will blow out in that area. I know from experience on this matter. There is enough pressure to blow the magazine out of a 22 rifle. I had a sticky firing pin on a AR-7 rifle that did this and it also bent the left side cover plate.
bruski[/quote]

I would not disagree about the auto cartridges having a thicker case wall but your damage in your AR7 was not caused by a partially unsupported chamber.    I am betting your AR7 has a fully supported chamber.   Your round must have detonated WELL out of the chamber, perhaps right in the magazine when the bolt with the stuck pin hit.   Would a 22 in the chamber with only a barrell notch cause any issues?    Can\'t say for sure but I would doubt it.  Your malfunction probably had huge areas unsupported and the majority of the pressure discharged into the receiver.   Even a 22 short has enough pressure to drive a 16d nail into concrete if the pressure is released that way.[/quote]

I experienced case blow out on my first test fire.  The unsupported area created by the grooved ring was the cause.  The thin extractor also blew back into the groove.  To remedy this I added a steel ring to the groove to back up the extractor tip and chamber.  

Frank

This is why I switched to a non grooved barrel ring.  I milled out the space for the ejector with the barrels assembled.

Very interesting info      GREAT !  one more thing to go wrong   LOL