New Member

Just discovered this site a couple of weeks ago and decided to join in.  I am building a D&E Gatling and am just about finished.  I am in the test firing stage now and will do the final finishing and polishing next.

Frank

Glad you\'re here - got pictures!

nitewatchman

New Member.  Please read the posts by pmercer and me on Progress about the D&E gun.  Will your gun fire more than two or three times.  How did you achieve this?

[quote name=\"nitewatchman\"]Glad you\'re here - got pictures!

nitewatchman[/quote]

Thanks for the welcome.  I do have pictures but have to figure out how to post them.

Frank

[quote name=\"Steve McKuhen\"]New Member.  Please read the posts by pmercer and me on Progress about the D&E gun.  Will your gun fire more than two or three times.  How did you achieve this?[/quote]

I have been reading your posts and have experienced the same problems.  I have fired 5 shots in succesion fed from the stick magazine (I only loaded 5 rds).  I will go for 10 today!  Mainly had problems with firing pin pressure, and extraction.

Frank

I had the most success with the 4mm square firing pins.  It was difficult to get the total length of the pin correct.  The fit of the shaft in the frame must be without any tolerance as the amount of slip will prevent the firing pin from striking fully.  The most common comment about the springs is that the more spring strength the more the gun will not crank.  Am very interested in you test fire today.  I am sure Pmercer will have questions when he sees your posts.

[quote name=\"Steve McKuhen\"]I had the most success with the 4mm square firing pins.  It was difficult to get the total length of the pin correct.  The fit of the shaft in the frame must be without any tolerance as the amount of slip will prevent the firing pin from striking fully.  The most common comment about the springs is that the more spring strength the more the gun will not crank.  Am very interested in you test fire today.  I am sure Pmercer will have questions when he sees your posts.[/quote]

Got 9 shots off with 1 eject failure.  Took apart to clean as it is getting pretty dirty.  I have test fired 120 rds so far.  I am going to try a floating firing pin next.

Frank

Frank - we gladly welcome a new D&E builder!  

I\'m still not at the stage where I can fire mine but have been gleaning all the information I can from Steve!!

I will get back onto mine soon!

Paul

Nine out of ten, better than I ever did.  With all ten bolts in place the spring pressure would make turning the crank handle difficult.  How is your crank pressure?  I am not familiar with a floating firing pin.  I used the 4mm square pin.  The site that I got the information for this modification seems to be closed as I can no longer find it.  I can not give credit to the gentleman that first used it as I can not remember his name.  It was called a non rotating firing pin.  I am trying to complete my Bonelle Tool and Cutter Grinder and other projects so I can decide if I shall do a rebuild on my gguns.  If I can not solve the firing problem I am just interested in making a model.  One thing I still have not solved is how to measure the pressure required to turn the crank.  I have looked but can not find a scale with enough range to measure the pressure.  I tried several luggage scales and some old time grocery scales with no success.  Any ideas?

[quote name=\"Steve McKuhen\"]Nine out of ten, better than I ever did.  With all ten bolts in place the spring pressure would make turning the crank handle difficult.  How is your crank pressure?  I am not familiar with a floating firing pin.  I used the 4mm square pin.  The site that I got the information for this modification seems to be closed as I can no longer find it.  I can not give credit to the gentleman that first used it as I can not remember his name.  It was called a non rotating firing pin.  I am trying to complete my Bonelle Tool and Cutter Grinder and other projects so I can decide if I shall do a rebuild on my gguns.  If I can not solve the firing problem I am just interested in making a model.  One thing I still have not solved is how to measure the pressure required to turn the crank.  I have looked but can not find a scale with enough range to measure the pressure.  I tried several luggage scales and some old time grocery scales with no success.  Any ideas?[/quote]
Steve,
I would suggest using the spring rate of the springs you are using times the loading.  There are two bolts cocking as you turn and spring rate times the distance traveled should give you a rough idea of the crank pressure less any friction in the assembly.  That is what I am working with right now.  I have used three different springs so far, and the ones I am using now fire consistantly but with 10 bolts in the gun, has too heavy of crank pressure.  I am using .032 wire x 1.75 music wire springs.  I want to go back to the .026 wire springs I previously tried, but those springs gave me missfires.  I want to form the firing pin on the end to present less surface area to allow a harder hit on the rim with the spring pressure available.  In order to do this I need to keep the firing pin from rotating so I am trying a floating pin keyed to the bolt to keep it from rotating.  Basically I am trying a headed firing pin seperate from the spring and buffer assembly.  Bolt cocks as normal but firing pin floats, upon firing spring and buffer move forward and strike firing pin head like a hammer.

Frank

Roller,
     You have just described the problem I have been trying to solve for several years since I first became a ggun addict.  Every site I have found has described the firing problem in different ways but no one has come up with a solution and no one has shown evidence that their gun will fire a full 50 round magazine with no jambs or misfires.  This is my goal.
     I can add the total spring pressure but what I want is a way to measure the total pressure on the crank handle as it is turning.  I want a mechanical way to get a total instead of just using my hand and estimating that this combination of changes is better than that one.  I made a jig to mount the gun on and place a scale between the crank and the top of the jig.  I did not find a suitable scale that would allow the crank handle to turn freely through it\'s rotation and measure the pressure.  The best I found was a digital luggage scale but it was too difficult to get a good measurement.  Still thinking about this.
The 4 mm square firing pin does not rotate.  By using this I was able to shape the end of the pin as a rectangle with half of the surface area of the original round one.  I shaped the end at an angle so a sharp point would strike the rim.  I also found that the pins did not strike the rims in the same place every time.  This was mostly caused by the slack in the gun.  On a rebuilt there can be no excess movement.  Which leads back to the springs.
     The first solution that was posted on any of the sites would be just add stronger springs but as you know it is no solution at all.  It just adds more pressure so that the crank handle can not be moved.  One bolt works great, two work good and any more and the handle will break off.  I believe that the spring pressure alone is not the answer.  I have been thinking that the solution is to redesign the bolts and the firing pins.  Your floating pins sound interesting.  The only constraint I have is not to change the over all design and function of the gun.  This is where I have stopped thinking about the gun.
     The original full sized gun worked.

Steve,

If you need a measurement of crank pressure why don\'t you use a torque wrench?  A dial or digital inch pound , or ft. lb (LOL), will give you a comparison number. Go to Sears and get a gatling gun crank socket and substitute it for the crank.  Actually as I type this I think that I will try this also.  I have been going by feel only.  

Frank

Roller,
     Item on ebay, #270821781965. search for digital torque wrench.  $44.99 with free shipping.

Steve

The 3/8\" torque wrench from Sears is $9.99.  Seems like the best way to go?

[quote name=\"Roller\"]Steve,

If you need a measurement of crank pressure why don\'t you use a torque wrench?  A dial or digital inch pound , or ft. lb (LOL), will give you a comparison number. Go to Sears and get a gatling gun crank socket and substitute it for the crank.  Actually as I type this I think that I will try this also.  I have been going by feel only.  

Frank[/quote]
Steve,

I decided to try this on my gun, and with my current setup it takes 40 to 45 inch pounds to turn the barrels with all bolts in.  I am running it dry as of now, some lubrication on the cams may help.  I will test my floating pin bolt today with a lighter spring.  I would like to reduce the spring pressure.  At least now I have a reference point for comparison purposes.  Thanks for the idea, I never thought of getting a measurement of cranking force before.

Frank

Roller,
     Be careful when dry firing.  The firing pin will strike the barrel and scar it.  This will cause problems ejecting the spent cartridge.

Steve,

I have my firing pins trimmed to .035 sticking out of the bolt face for just the reason you describe.  There is no way you can avoid dry firing untill a cartridge is chambered.  In other words, until the loaded bolt reaches the firing position there will be 3 to 4 dry fires, which as you point out will allow the firing pin to scar the chamber.

Frank

I was going to post a picture but I do not know how.

When I put my ggun parts away in a drawer months ago I did a little cleaning on another project.  I used muriatic acid as a grease cleaner to blacken a few small parts.  When I opened the ggun drawer all the parts had been damaged from the acid fumes.  I guess that the fumes settled in the drawer.  What a mess.  I still have not decided to do a rebuild but with this a complete start over may be in order.

Steve,


Can you bead blast them! I lot of my steel parts are getting rusty also.


Frank

 

[attachment=9512:IMG_0463 (Large)-id=580.JPG]

I am going to try to post a picture.


[attachment=9513:DSC00042-id=579.JPG]


Ah, success.


I do not know if you can tell from the picture but most of the steel parts have a brown coriosion on them. The shine on the brass is gone, replaced with a sandpaper like scale. I just recently bought a bead blaster cabinet for another project. I am going to set up a powder coating oven and spray area above the oven.

This is not too bad as it is just part of the decision to proceed or not. Some of these parts have been revised to destruction. Others like the barrels can be cleaned up and polished again. On the rebuild I am going to blacken the barrels. I just did one piece for my grinder this evening and it came out well.

Did you taper your barrels? It is not mentioned in the instructions and the drawings are not clear. I have a few more things but will make another post.