With Steelcrafter\'s permission I am going to post our PMs in case they may benefit others building the D&E.
Also see more posts on modifying the cams. These are edited.
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Hey Steve,
I\'m building the D&E GG and seen your posts on the GG forum. Did you have
any success with modifying the cam box slope? I haven\'t made those parts
yet but wanted to know if that mod made any difference or not.
Thanks
Dan
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Hi.
I have read your posts.
I can not locate my notes on the cam modifications.
Yes, it does make a difference in the amount of torque on the crank handle and the smoothness of the travel.
The purpose is to eliminate the abrupt change in direction
when the lug hits the cam.
The plans call for moving one hole on the dividing head
and 0.005 on the table to produce a 45 angle.
I started plunging at the entry groove.
I moved the head one hole and the table 0.001 for several
holes, then 0.002 for several holes, 0.003, then 0.004, and
then 0.005. This created a curved slope on the cam instead
of the abrupt angle.
I will keep looking for my notes.
Hope this helps.
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Interesting method. Did this modification create any binding, jamming, or ejection issues?
Thanks
Dan
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I still can not find my notes.
The five divisions are not correct.
I will make another cam and come up
with the correct figures.
Hope this helps.
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That would be great Steve! At this point I\'m not well studied on the mechanics of how the two cams work the bolts in tandem. Based on your findings it sounds like anything done to reduce required torque would be a worthwhile endeavor.
I last finished drilling the .313 hole in my bolts. Next step is to counterbore and tap for the plug in the end. I had to order a size ought center drill for the firing pin hole. The smallest I had was size 4, much to big for the .089 hole in the end of the bolt.
Appreciate all your guidance!
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The bolt lug touches only one cam at a time. The space between the two cams at the angles is just empty space.
As the bolt is inserted into the entry hole the large, flat area of the front cam keeps it in the correct position so the end of the bolt will slide into the cocking ring. (I have replaced the round tip of the bolt with a ball bearing. It cuts down on the friction. I have tried other things here also such as using UHMW plastic and a curved, linear ball bearing in the cocking ring). The cam contacts only the front side of the lug. As the bolt carrier is rotated by the handle the lug moves until it encounters the acute angle of the rear cam. The spring is compressed as the rotation continues. The cam contacts only the rear right corner of the lug. (This is the beginning of the firing problems. By the time this first bolt reaches the firing position the next two bolts are also being compressed making it difficult to turn the handle. This why I modified the cam, to lengthen the travel it takes to compress the three springs and to lessen the degree of the angle so the handle would turn more freely). The lug moves along the angle until it is fully cocked and reaches the smaller flat on the rear cam. Here the round has been fully slid into the chamber and the ejector is in contact with the rim. The rear part of the lug is now in contact with the small flat of the rear cam. The spring keeps it in contact. This is what absorbs the shock of firing and why the cocking ring must be tight against the rear cam. (The weakness of the ejector and the fit are more firing problems).
It travels on this flat until it is released by the cocking ring.
Bang!
(The position, shape and spring pressure of the firing pin are the next firing problems).
Here the ejector starts to pull the round out of the chamber as it engages the acute angle of the front cam. (The ejector has always been a problem). It contacts the front, right corner of the lug.
It rides on this angle, dropping out the round until it hits the other side of the rear cam before the entry hole. Left, rear corner, but mostly the rear of the lug. It passes the entry hole and starts over.
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That explains it quite well, thank you Steve. I had only a cursory understanding until now. I\'m going to follow your instructions on the cam mod.
So, did you start the cocking angle right at the beginning of the entry hole or did you leave a small flat here? What your calling the entry hole is the slot in the rear cam that allows removal of the bolt correct?
I\'m just about done with the firing pins. I made them out of two pieces. The body is made out of 416 SS and the pin is made out of W1. I\'m going to quench them in oil after silver soldering to harden them up. I made the bolt body from 8620 and the lug out of O1. Will harden both of them as well but will have to be careful since the lug is soldered on already.> Take care!
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As you can see I have not received many replies to my posts.
Would you mind if I copy our PM messages and post them on the forum?
Then we can continue on the forum so someone else might benefit.
I do not consider my posts to be instructions but just the way I am proceeding
to solve the problems I have found.
Thank you.
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Feel free to cut and paste.
I\'m building the pins to print for now. I\'ve read the post about modifying the pins as well as the floating design from Roller. I\'m not entirely convinced the issue is not weight of the pin assembly. If there was more weight flinging forward, the pin end would be less critical.